Answer159

	Sign In Sign-Up

Question159

To what degree do 'first generation' atheists >manage to discard (where appropriate) the (religious) >culture they came from?

I have a feeling moreso than the second generation. I have a special zeal against religion that I doubt I could impart onto my kids if I ever had any, for the same reasons why my parents should realize that I'm not a mirror image of them. (Hendrix Fan aa #1692)

I actually had thought that I had. Years ago. Somewhere back in the 70's when I was around 30 odd. Then I started reading on the internet 5 years ago, and then in the middle of last year started to write after 4 years of 'just' reading.

June last year was the first time I even bothered to check in on what other disbelievers thought in atheist forums and got one heck of a surprise. I was indoctrinated (unsuccessfully) in catholicism as a kid. Went through the rituals to avoid any more beatings than I already got at school, and after leaving home at 18 never confessed to any priest ever again. Never thought anymore about the disgusting idea of 'eating' a jesus in a communion wafer, nor cared less about the pope and his infallibility, nor do I to this day. Well that bit isn't true. I do care, but in the telling of a bit of factual human history. Mine; 'and' expose the liars for their crimes.

So in answer to the question in part "manage to discard the religious culture I came from" by writing about *it* means that I haven't really discarded it at all. I am in the process of discarding it in a way I wish was available years ago. Not just rejecting it for the lies and brutality that *is* the culture of catholicism, but to do so on the basis of human values of life that is having FAITH in myself, not a pack of lying shit. The experience of fundamentalists was not a thing of my life at all until reading the clowns that troll their way through here, and they make the catholic church look good by comparison. Weird thing is, the catholics started out just like the fundamentalists. Want to take over everything too.

So, while I am writing and reading about "the culture" it is still part of my life, but this writing bit is something I've only really started doing since I passed 55, and if the process is a bit wobbly, it is 'my' experience, and the sooner I can put down my ideas and memories (this process is improving my overall life too) the better it will be that I can assist another who has the courage to look over the walls, as it were, and find that life has so much more to it than looking forward to an absurd whichever way you look at it 'life after death' and by so doing miss out on 'life' while you've got it. (Kerry aa#17730

I was lucky in that my family....while believing in God...wasn't very religious. Other than RE classes at school ....and when asking innocent childhood questions about why the way things were, being told "God did it"..... I escaped the brainwashing and indoctrination. When I was "reborn"... so to speak... as an atheist, all I really did was apply common sense to situations I had previously applied God to. However there was always that little voice in the back of my mind that would niggle me with "What if there is a God...what if your disability is God punishing you for not believing in him..." As irrational as my conscious mind found this....it was always there....so I decided to make the ultimate act of rebellion to religion. I took one of my old Bibles out to the yard and burned it. Now I should say that I do not support the burning of any books and will fight against any censorship. I knew burning one Bible would do anything to rid the world of religion, nor was this my intention. I was merely proving to that niggling little part of my primitive instinct, that if I did something my old religion considered terrible blasphemy, nothing bad would happen to me. I wouldn't be struck by lightning or afflicted with leprosy....all that would happen is paper would burn....nothing else. Once I did this simple act...it was like a weight had been lifted....that little voice shut up.....and has remained so. I now actually keep a Bible in my toilet hanging from a string with "Spare Toilet Paper" written on it...to remind me its nothing but a fairy tale....and it makes for a good sight gag and conversation starter. (Clayton Frono)

I think that first generation atheists generally discard alot of the trappings of their previous religious values without actually ditching the essence of it entirely - that is not to say that they secretly yearn to go to a service or mass or whatever...

One's cultural outlook is something that evolves just like everything else and is not simply a question of which religion you call your own. The "spirit of the age" will also influence one's value system, one's place in time and space in terms of politics, history and economics will inevitably influence an individual's morality.

So, most western atheists today are apalled at the prevalent attitudes towards homosexuality among (almost) all the judaeo-christian and islamic religions. Creationism will make most atheists bristle. "Knowledge" based on faith will rankle with all atheists and yet...

Most western atheists also still believe that monogamy is the only acceptable form of sexual relationship. Many of the accepted values in western society(many of which atheists share) are directly based in the recent and not-so-recent culture of the society in which they live, which up until the very recent past has been driven by religious moral consideration.

In other words not only are first generation atheists influenced, at least at a subconscious level, by what religion they came from but so are their offspring and their offspring in turn again - but that influence is battling with other influences as alluded to above from a whole range of sources all of which are constantly changing; no-one can be independant of their past. (Ciaran Oneill)

For myself, I don't think I ever really picked up any of the prevailing religious culture. I was baptized, sent to Lutheran Sunday School, and even confirmed at a Lutheran church; but I never bought into the beliefs. I did not make it easy for those teaching my confirmation classes. At one point, I got the pastor so flustered that he said to me, "There is a God, whether or not you believe it." His manner was that of a man on the edge, so it seemed clear he was saying that to convince himself more than me. I've consciously been an atheist since age eight or before. Exactly when, I don't know. I heard the term "atheist" for the first time when I was twelve. When I asked what the word meant, my Scoutmaster replied, "Someone who believes we came from monkeys." It's inescapable that some of my personal morals are based on the society in which I live, but there aren't any which I haven't examined through reason, and consequently modified. So, for example, while I see myself as a monogamist, I fully understand polygamy, and don't consider it immoral at all (provided, of course, the participants are willing - something which doesn't wholly apply to Mormons). I don't have a problem with homosexuality, prostitution, sex, and virtually all the other Christian taboos. Given that, I think it's fair to say that I've discarded Christian culture completely, and anything in common between its morality and mine is just a rare example of when Christianity is actually correct about something. (Mike Ruskai)

] Understanding "religious culture" as "the bits of the surrounding culture that are properly religious", I think I do quite well.

As always, there are parts of it harder than others. Religious references in language (when someone sneezes we say "ĄJesús!", and that's almost a reflex) are the hardest, I think. You hear them so often that they become meaningless words.

Other point is that when someone talks about a wedding I tend to imagine a religious one, but it's not strange, I remember when pure civil marriages were allowed in Spain and I'm only 33. Before that, only canonic (i.e. Catholic) marriages were valid.

Other than that, I don't see anythng in their babbling as "rational", I don't agree that it's not important which way ethics are taught to children, I don't agree that the State should help the RCC to keep their buildings or pay their wages... well, any of the arguments to use religion in everyday life. (Angel Arnal aa#1443)

As a personal matter, I've managed to shed all the religious nonsense with which I grew up. It has no impact on me whatever. That's probably because I recognized, fairly early on, that morality was *not* the exclusive province of religion and that all moral codes were human inventions. While I still hold most of the moral convictions I held when I was a Christian, I've never regarded them as "Christian" morals.

However, I live and work in a culture that is dominated by religion and in which there is no real escape from it. As a consequence I'm forced to deal with it on that level. (George Ricker)

Speaking for myself... After 16 years as a born again I began the process of "coming out" as gay. When I accepted that fully, I left my religious group/church. In doing so, each and every one of them shunned me, including the couple I was best man for at their wedding. One year later, after much admitting to myself of doubts that had been growing for years, I realized I no longer believed in the existence of the Chrisitan god, or any other god for that matter.

During that year or so of my two coming outs I think I rejected all the trappings of my former conservative Christian beliefs. Combine that with the shunning and I would say that, as a first generation atheist, I have discarded virtually all the trappings and culture. The emotions and pain of betrayal have taken a little longer to discard but they are following along nicely, thank you very much. (Peter Perreault)

That would depent greatly on the way they were brought up. My parents were hardly into R.C. Dogma, so it never influenced me much.

As a child as was mostly interested in God as a lawmaker as the originator of the ten Commandments. As an Atheist, I consider "God" as a personification of this "law" and think all the extra characteristics theists add to this, are totally beside the point. In fact I haven't changed a bit, just cut out, the mumbo jumbo, and got back to basics.

I met a man on the internet that had a theory of life that went like this.

1. As a child we have ideals 2. Growing up, we exchange these ideals for adult view of life. 3. Once we really find some Wisdom, we go back to our ideals, and forget all the so-called adult, reality. which are no more real than our childhood ideas.

He may be right. It seems true for me. (Peter van Velzen)

Since I have been an atheist for 40 yrs. now, I don't think much about religion except in terms of my atheism. (like now when I am writing this.) My family, however, is still religious( RCC) and from time to time I am asked to attend baptisms, weddings, or funerals. At such times, during the service, I just do what everyone else does, stand up, sit down, kneel, etc. As far as holidays, like Christmas, Thanksgiving, and Easter, I usually take part in celebrations, but they have become so secularized, that I have no need to get involved in the religious aspects. Hey, they're a good excuse to party or get yourself invited to dinner! (John Hachmann aa#1782 )

Well, I don't go to church, don't give a shit about pork on fridays. If I want to do something on sundays I bloody well do it. Of course in Australia it is not so much of a religious culture. Of course some of it still exists enough to get stupid laws passed every now and then. but it is no biggy.

As far as the question of passion, I would think that I feel alot more passionate about my atheism than my children (if I have any) would. Simply because they didn't need to break the shackles of stupidity. (Evil Bob aa#1856 )

Interesting. This jibes with my experience quite well. My father is a first generation atheist, and he is really extremely passionate about it. He has a deep hatred of anything religious. He uses any excuse to bring up atheism, especially whan his brother in law (also a first generation atheist) is around. It's as if they are both worried that they might slip back into religion unless they keep reinforcing their lack of religious belief by constantly pointing out the idiocy and evil that often follows from religion. They are both very careful to avoid doing anything with religious connotations--like a xmas tree or such stuff.

I, a second generation atheist who never had any serious brush with religion, am much more easy-going. I also have no trouble celebrating religious holidays--we always do xmas and an easter egg hunt (nice pagan holiday, this one). We sometimes bake hamentaschen and read the appropriate passage from the OT where you are supposed to make noises whenever the guy's name comes up. And so on. And why not? Those traditions are an important part of our cultural background. I enjoy participating in them, just like I loved taking part of Nawrooz celebrations with my friends from Iran and Diwali celebrations when I was spending a lot of time with some friends from India. (Orhan Orgun aa#1867)

Click here to return to master question page.