Amswer 146

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Amswer 146

Question146

Do you think that the current fundamentalist Christian backlash was caused by a sincere desire to spread the word of their religion or by their leaders taking advantage of their followers fear of rapidly advancing knowledge and their inability to keep up with it due to deliberately poor educations? Do you have any other thoughts about this?

I think the increase in scientific understanding has had something to do with the rise of fundyism. The more the literal interpretation of the bible rubbed up against science the more stupid those adhering to it would have to become. They are motivated by a fear of uncertainty. Doubt is their enemy instead of an opportunity for learning. (Meteorite Debris #1417)

"B", as far as I'm concerned.

> Do you have any other thoughts about this?

Just the observation that while I know many intelligent Christians in real life, every fundamentalist I've encountered both here and in the real world seems to be either invincibly ignorant, dumb as wheat, or both. (raven1 #1096)

Fundamentalism is caused by rapid changes in the society which cause certain people, who don't understand the things that are occurring or are not going along with the current, to have an irrationally large desire for past values in an attempt to create more certainty in a world which seems to become more and more uncertain to them.

Other than that I have no clear picture of the American situation, I'm sure it's a mixture of the two. Fundamentalism can't go anywhere if there aren't enough of the people mentioned above, though. (DJ Nozem #1465)

As a bit of a cynic, I lean towards the second position, mixed in with a good dose of the first. The sincere desire really does exist in the rank and file, but it is viciously and deliberately manipulated by the religious leadership for their own purposes. (Paul J. Koeck #360)

I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are sincere, until I have reason to believe otherwise. I know some fundamentalists who are well aware of the rapidly advancing knowledge and have decent to good educations. They are wise enough to not start an argument over religion, but would insist on finishing one triumphant. I think they would stand up to their religious leaders if they felt it was warranted. (Chaos Theory #1354)

Don't know, but their methods are fairly clear: The current fundamentalist resurgence in the USA was enabled primarily by their astute and largely successful realization that they could affect change by influencing the political system. In particular, the Republican party has been largely usurped by rabid fundies to the point where being called a Goldwater Republican is now an insult. Ask John McCain.

If you don't believe me, tune in to the Repblican National Convention this weekend. Count how many times God and Jesus and the Bible are mentioned compared to Goldwater, Lincoln and Eisenhower.

To me, this is deeply troubling and has many of the earmarks of a modern-day Crusade, with some folks so entrenched in their beliefs as to legislate against others when said beliefs are challenged.

It's scary, and I'm fearful for our political system because of it. (chibiabos)

Well, yes, no and it depends.

Yes, I believe it is a sincere desire to spread the word of religion in a lot of cases. I know that when I was deluded...er...a fundy, the "go ye into all the world and preach the gospel" was shoved down my throat with all the feel good happy warm fuzzies that I would be doing the right thing. So I believe that the *flock* is sincere in it's desire to spread the word in most cases. Leadership is another story. What your question hints at but doesn't say, is that a church is a business.

Pastors know this, leadership knows this. Butts in the seats equals money in the plate. So I think that the business aspect of a church, which is ignored by or unknown to most of the flock, is what causes the leadership to push "witnessing" by the flock. The flock, OTOH, does what the leadership says because A. it says so in the bible and B. it has a sincere belief in god. Otherwise, why would they be there?

But no, I don't believe that it's fear due to deliberate undereducation IN MOST CASES. Besides their irrational teaching of creationism as a science, most xtian schools are as good as or better than most public schools, all things being equal. Catholic schools, especially, have a reputation for giving one a sterling education, and I know this to be true in my own case, having attended Catholic school because it was the only private school in a town where the public schools sucked wind. Therefore, in most middle class, suburban churches, it isn't a lack of education that is causing the backlash. It's the ability to subjugate that education to a belief system, and the respect for authority...in this case, the authority of the church leadership, that's taught to most of us from the cradle onwards.

And this is where I get to: it depends. It depends on the congregation. The most irrational, proselytizing fundies in my experience come from the most rural, backwater churches. Undereducation is certainly a factor in this instance, as is fear of the unknown, because many in congregations such as these are ignorant in the truest sense of the word. (i.e.: not ignorant=stupid, but ignorant=uneducated) They simply don't know about and therefore don't understand the rapidly changing world around them, nor do they have the education to go out and get the knowledge that they need to relive the fear of the unknown. A college prof once described education to me in this way: it's not what you learn, it's learning how to find out what you don't know. In most cases, the folks in this example are too busy living day to day to accomplish anything more than that. And the leadership, usually sent to these churches from somewhere outside the community, can use that and take advantage of it. It takes more butts in the seats to make money in a rural, poor community than in a more sophisticated, middle-class community.

Bottom line...the church leadership does what it needs to do to make money. In some cases, that means pushing the religious/social aspect of proselytizing, and in some cases, it means getting the congregation to proselytize out of fear. Whatever works to get those butts in the seats! (Grace #1752)

Depends on the individual, but in the main I think the latter situation is the driver. (Stoney #9)

There is a pretense that "fundamentalist christianity" is a religious movement. It's not. The "religious right" was begun in the 1970's by people with far-right economic and social beliefs; religion was merely the vehicle used to seize political power. (Read Perry Dean Young's insightful book "God's Bullies".) It is with the willing aid of religionists that it spread, those who saw this as an opportunity to force their views on others.

A fundamentalist view meant to stop an immoral (in their eyes) society is one thing, but fascism in the guise of faith is another. The fundamentalism in the US in the early 20th century (such as in the scopes trial) is much like that of Ayatolla Khomeini, meant to "purify" its society; yes, it was warped and some atrocious crimes were committed in its name, but there were also no false motivations in its leaders. In a strange turn, Iran today is probably the most open, tolerant, women-friendly, and enlightened of all the islamic fundamentalist nations.

The same cannot be said of the extreme right of today. The fundamentalists in countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Tunisia, but especially in Afghanistan, are fascist dictators who hide under the cloak of "faith" and "morality" to perpetuate their hate and ignorance toward women, other religions, social and political minorities, or anyone who is critical of the regime, never mind traitorous. And the fundamentalists in the US share exact same mentality.

What is happening in the US is not christianity in any sense of the word, that is merely a label they use as they drape themselves in the shroud of Turin.

And their sincerity is as real as that rag's origin. (Bob Dog)

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