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How many atheists think that Jesus never existed or that he was merely
a man whose life was blown out of proportion?
But the biblical - born of a virgin - one of three - son of god - Jesus?
I'll only believe that one when god tells me himself. :) (Al Klein)
In addition to that, it's possible he tried to create an army of Jews to
fight the Romans. What makes me think this? It's the convoluted nature
of the gospel. If the Christian rip off artists were really trying to
make a peace-nik/hippy religion, they would have started from scratch,
but it's clear that they started from something that was *not*
peack-nik/hippy and changed it.
For evidence, you can see that, when Jesus was arrested, *SIX HUNDRED*
men showed up to arrest him (a cohort of soldiers). One of his disciples
(peace-niks, supposedly) draws a sword and cuts someone's ear off. After
that, we have J.C. up on the cross, getting poisoned so as to appear dead
(remember the "piercing" with the sword?) and then "miraculously" appearing
later.
Old trick, he never had to die. If you read the crucifixion scene in John,
it's almost like someone is explaining a magic trick in a really poor way,
leaving all the hints in place that it's a trick (hyssop, the aloes, the
early death etc.)
That's what makes me think that there was a historical guy who did some
magic tricks and got in over his head and go executed for it.
As for godhood, of course not. (Greg Gyetko #911)
Of course, the stories about Jesus have borrowed much material from
earlier myths, so they cannot be trusted very far. In addition I suspect
that much was left out. Are we really supposed to believe that the founder
of a new religion gave no guidance about sex, for example? After all, this
is a man who tried to persuade people to be kind to each other.
The most revolutionary aspect of his teaching can be summed up in 2
quotes:
'Love your neighbor as yourself'
- which means loving yourself first, of course, which many christians
do not practice.
'turn the other cheek'
- which led to the early christians practicing total pacifism.
I know of no other influential philosophy or religion active at that time
in that part of the world that promoted the ideals of kindness and
pacifism. I regard this as further evidence that something extraordinary
occurred and that the simplest explanation is that Jesus did indeed exist.
There are claims that Jesus was a buddhist and spent time in India. That
is a plausible theory - but the evidence is paper thin.
Even his earliest followers could not have been very comfortable with his
pacifism otherwise they would not have kept the hate filled obscenity of
the Old Testament.
It is sometimes claimed that Paul invented Jesus. But if that were true
then surely the gospels would have been more in line with the legalistic
and power mongering ideas of Paul. I do think it makes sense, though, to
regard Paul as the real founder of christianity. I think there is a
direct line from his ambitious self serving to the bloody mess that
resulted when the Roman emperors finally coopted the new religion.
(Martin Thomas)
Jesus did not exist for two reasons. For one thing, the gospels were
written more than a century after his supposed death. For another,
there is no other evidence left behind to indicate his existance.
Supposedly, a handfull of old men remembered his life "well enough"
while NOBODY else did out of the thousands of people Jesus supposedly
preached to.
We can reconstruct the lives of neanderthals, but we haven't *ever* found
anything at all about this profoundly popular man save some frauds like
the shroud of turin. It is very easy to see how a myth about some hero who
lived 130 years ago was inspired by all sorts of cultish myths to which
this one resembles uncanily and a bunch of cultish types started believing
in it. (Hendrix Fan #1693)
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